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Saturday, December 15, 2012


It was in July that I posted on YES, WE NEED GUN CONTROL.  Both sides have their supporters for a variety of reasons, but regarding those two boys, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold (Eric on left) of Columbine, how did they acquire the above aresenal? As they were both underage to purchase the shotguns, Dyland's girlfriend got them, plus, they used fake IDs for the pistol.  

A friend of mine who I would presume owns a lot of guns sent to his blog list this statement from one of his colleagues:

I find it interesting that gun nuts always think everyone is after their firearms. We've never had any real gun control in this country. More guns, less guns, it doesn't really matter one way or the other. This kind of thing is an anomaly that will continue to happen regardless, and you may have time to pull out your piece or not. Whenever something like this happens, the anti gun crowd says we need gun control, the pro gun crowd says if everyone had a gun this wouldn't have happened. Both camps are self serving and full of shit.

So true, but what can be the solution?  This issue is like religion.  You have one camp believing that any gun can be a danger, while the other truly needs them for self-protection and/or as a matter of individual liberty.  Compelling logic is meaningless in this discussion.

Wikipedia has half a dozen separate treatments of this subject, and they all provide what can be done.  Basically, there are crazies, and you can only minimize the potential for shootings through education and gun control.  Nothing will insure for total prevention, although, actually, let me mention one idea from another friend:  let anyone own a gun; however, if that gun kills anyone, the owner will be terminated.  Alas, this would not have worked for the recent killings as all but one of the perpetrators committed suicide. Also there is no reason why anyone should own attack rifles or Glock (largely made of plastic) pistol (they all hold ten or more bullets in a magazine--that is a 17 to the right, which doesn't hold 17 bullets) equivalents.  These should be outlawed, period.

Of course you know this answer, but which country has the highest guns/resident? 

  United States     .89
  Serbia               .58
  Yemen              .55
  Switzerland        .55
  Singapore         .005
  Solomon Isle    .004
  Timor-Leste      .003
  Tunisia             .001

Interesting that Timor-Leste was the 208th country to visit this blog site, while the Solomon Islands were #209, the latest two. Anyway, just about every one in the U.S. owns a gun.  Actually, this figure is about one-third, as a few own many.  And, of course, Adam Lanza just killed his mother and used her guns to massacre 20 children and those others in Connecticut, so any gun control measure would not have helped.  

Well, that tipping point has finally been reached.  Touching that President Barack Obama had tears in his eyes in addressing the Nation about the tragedy, but he missed a golden opportunity.  He should have also said I will introduce legislation to outlaw firearms of any kind, with exceptions made to qualified hunters and anyone with a court determined need to carry them.  I gather he will do something anyway, as he doesn't need to stand for re-election, and almost anything should be able to get through our Congress next year.  Anytime later and people forget.  

While at this, outlaw the National Rifle Association and American Civil Liberties Union.  I'm kidding!  

The politics (Republicans own more guns, above) can be a problem, but the matter of protecting your household from the equivalent of "Indians" is nonsense today.  I can guarantee you that North Korea will not attack us as in Red Dawn.  In any case, "American ingenuity" was used to fight back, not personal guns.  Guns at home:

Did you know that the ban on assault weapons expired in 2004?  Then there are also home-made bombs, but that is for another time.

So, at the expense of some static from a few friends who are survivalists and patriots, here is how we can reduce firearm massacres:

  1.  Repeal the Second Amendment.  Adopted in 1791 with the Bill of Rights, this law protects the right of people to keep and bear arms.  More than two centuries ago there might have been concerns about the British returning or being attacked by native Indians.  Today, the British will not be coming, nor the Russians.  Sure, a few terrorists, but we have 800,000 law enforcement officials and half a million in the National Guard, plus, of course, around 1.5 million military on active duty and an equal number in reserve.  What if doomsday comes and you need to defend yourself?  The odds are low that this will happen.  I expect feedback from this statement.

  2.  Make it illegal to own any firearm.  Everyone must turn in their weapons by a certain date, with a transition period to gain approval for hunting, self-defense or any truly reasonable cause.  Rifles  need to be confiscated when out of season.  Some states might outlaw hunting.  Anyone arrested with an illegal firearm will be fined $100,000 and/or get jail time, depending on the circumstances.  A convicted criminal will automatically go to stage two.  A second offense will quadruple the penalty.  Anyone legally owning a gun will be liable even if stolen and unreported.

  3.  Education.

Tropical Cyclone Evan has weakened to 105 MPH, and will pass just north of Fiji, which will still get a lot of wind and rain:



Tom Burnett said...

The average police response time to a violent crime - reported ONLY after it is in progress or even over - is six minutes. Where I live it could be an hour. The average response time for one of the million or so retired police officers and competent concealed weapons holders is five seconds.

Timothy McVey killed more people than all of these shooters combined - including, I think, sixteen or nineteen children. He didn't use a firearm.

There are going to be psychopaths. No one can prevent it. High level sociopaths are, in fact, exactly what spy agencies seek out - for they can function at a very high lever while giving away the keys to the kingdom.

How many people are in danger because nuclear proliferation failed? How many people died as 'collateral damage' from Hellfire missiles fired from drones?

What possible good can come from banning firearms which are legally held because a very few are (1) obtained illegally (your example), or (2) purchased legally by criminals and psychopaths?

We tried that with prohibition. We tried it with the 'war on drugs'. The bottom line is simple. If you cannot trust the majority of your own citizens, you have no country. It so happens that police officers are occasionally afflicted with pychosis as well as other people. But that's not the issue either.

You pictured a Glock 17. The polymer frame, as with all polymer firearms is made by injection molding of the polymer Nylon 6. It can be done almost as easily by being printed in 3D using Nylon6. an M-16 can be made in a few minutes on a CNC machine. The barrel is a it more difficult, but not if you know where to buy the tens of thousands of surplus ones.

What you are proposing is the creation of the largest black market firearms industry in the history of the world - in which there will be NO CONTROL AT ALL, NO TRACEABILITY and NO REGISTRATION,

How do enforce this? An edict? Everyone must turn in their firearms or we will come and tear your house apart looking for them? I have been collecting firearms for years. Not to shoot - but as collector's items that appreciate in value. Can you just take my life savings away because of a crazy person?

Do you think anyone would give them up in the first place? I wouldn't. They could lay siege to my house and take them eventually, but then they would have to go next door and do it all again. You will lose one police officer at every third house - IF you could convince any of them to actually do something like that.

But rather than sitting home waiting to be killed, I'd probably proactive and hunt the officer's family down while he was killing people on my block.

There are 350 million citizens and about 300 million firearms. Firearms are used about two MILLION times a year to STOP violent crimes. Like this, which happened in July:

Tom Burnett said...

Of course there was a point which I alluded to but didn't make. Nuclear, Biological and Chemical weapons proliferation is the big brother of firearms control. It didn't work.

Trying to disarm 350 million people because of ~350 admittedly dangerous psychopaths running around at any given minute - plus an estimated 100 serial killers who typically don't use firearms and are seldom caught by tearing up the Constitution is madness itself. I agree a way must be discovered to identify these people and intervene, but not at the cost of having a roving TSA squad on every block.

It is everyone's basic right since time immemorial to defend themselves and their families. It used to be with rocks and sharp sticks and MANY more people have been killed with those implements than with firearms.

Compelling logic is most certainly NOT meaningless in this conversation. 600,000 people in Michigan hune every year for meat, I am a farmer. I grow my own vegetables and hunt pigs for the table. I fish, or trade for meat and things I don't grow. But I don't kill my mother, take her firearms and go to elementary schools to shoot children and the ridiculous state and federal laws prohibiting firearms on school campuses and in 'No gun' zones does not deter someone who intends to die during his spree. It merely enables them.

Where is Israel on your list, by the way? Every healthy male AND female is required to serve in the IDF and take their weapon home with them afterward and keep it after their service. They can carry it. Is that country riddled with crime? That exact solution would solve this problem. Two weeks in Marine Corps boot camp would weed out the psychopaths in a hurry. EVERYONE should be required to serve the nation in exactly that way.

Firearms are not instruments of evil except in the hands of evil people. 350 evil people out of 350 MILLION people is not a reason to confiscate firearms. It is a reason to do early psychiatric screening and intervention.

FYI, the ACLU accepts cases for everything EXCEPT Second Amendment issues. The NRA does not allow the use of the word "weapon" in any of it's training classes except for Law Enforcement classes and does not permit silhouette targets. None of these spree killers were NRA members.

Further, the attempted spree killer at the Macy's store was stopped when his gun jammed. When he got it unjammed, and armed citizen had drawn a firearm and was ready to stop the spree. The person raced to a stairwell and killed himself. Without that intervention, he might have killed many more people.

Once again, the armed citizen stopped a crime spree. And once again, everyone's solution is to take that citizen's firearm away.

PAt, do you remember the horror that had befallen our nation when the movie 'West Side Story' was released? there was a huge clamor to make spring assisted knives illegal. They are the weakest type of knife made and not suitable for close combat. But they were banned and remain so to this day - although I used to carry one in my flight suit to cut parachute cord - other than that it was useless as a survival tool.

Inanimate objects are not inherently evil. Determining which PEOPLE are is the issue that needs to be addressed.

I can continue, and I must.

Tom Burnett said...

Rather than burn your bandwidth, I shall refer you to a link and defend to anyone who wants to try logic instead of ad hominem attacks.

Tom Burnett said...

Stop the Evil!
Posted: 17 Dec 2012 08:11 PM PST
"We will be told the causes of such violence are complex, and that is true. No single law, no set of laws can eliminate evil from the world or prevent every senseless act of violence in our society, but that can't be an excuse for inaction. Surely we can do better than this." - Barack Obama, December 16, 2012

Can we stop the evil? The loudest solution offered by the loudest voices in our society, the President and the Press, tell Americans (and the world) gun control is the only possible solution. Many people who would never look at gun control before now look at the faces of those 20 unprotected little angels from Newtown and wonder if maybe, just maybe gun control really might feel better. Like they are doing something.

A few days before the Newtown slaughter, a similarly deranged person went to a mall in Oregon and began shooting. That criminals' gun jammed after he killed two people. In that moment, a citizen hero with a concealed carry permit did something. He pulled his self defense weapon. The hero had an opportunity to stop the madman. But when the hero saw something move near the murderer, he held his fire. The madman fixed his gun and looked up to see the citizen hero ready to stop his evil. The madman turned and ran, to a stairwell where he took his own life.

The countries of Israel and Thailand have faced evil. Many of their school children were killed by evil of a complex nature that they could not eliminate. Those countries reacted proactively, by arming the people entrusted with the care of the innocent children.

They knew the nature of the evil they faced, and it would not stop. They knew, from their own experience, banning guns could not stop it.

Other countries, nearer to our own, will say gun control was enough to stop the evils they faced. Great Britain will tell you they haven't had a repeat of Dublane since they tightened gun control.

But are we that confident, that our current evil, which appears to be the mental health of our own young men, will submit to gun control?

The country of Norway recently came face to face with an unexpected evil in their midst. They already regulated gun ownership. Would banning gun ownership stop a budding evil in its tracks? Or was the horror unleashed at the Utoya summer camp a one time attack on Norway's children?

One thing we know of evil, with unerring certainty, is that banning guns will eventually give evil more power. Turkey, Germany, China, Cambodia and far to many more countries have witnessed evil without restraint. Several years after Dublane, Great Britain may be learning what Israel and others have already learned.

Evil, unchecked by freedom, is even worse than we can imagine on this day.

The solution to the violence of genocide, and the massacre at the elementary school that President Obama seeks, was found by a hero in Oregon, and articulated by an Irish Catholic friend of America from our early years searching for life, liberty and happiness. Edmund Burke wrote
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

When good men are banned from stopping evil, nothing will.

Tom Burnett said...


Dear Tom:

Hey, finally, some comments. I'll digest what you said and perhaps follow up with a second posting on this subject. Save for the small minority, and, of course, you're of of them, I still wonder why so many of our citizens want to own guns. But, then, as I said, I am also mystified as to how 90+% of Americans can believe in some kind of afterlife.


Tom Burnett said...

There now must have been two shooters at least, and the second one killed Lanza. Lanza took two handguns into the school. The Bushmaster - the firearm everyone wants to ban, and the one the coroner said killed all the people - was found in the car. But Lanza was in the school, dead. This is very like what happened in Colorado end even to Gabrielle Giffords.